No Stirring the pot..... Please read and thoughtfully respond

[Comp 307]

I’m reposting an email I received from Greg Kamplain earlier today as the Division 3 rep. While I hope all the other reps are doing the same, I appreciate Greg’s efforts to start reaching out early, providing his own view, and recognizing that he will support what the majority wants – even if it conflicts with his own desires.

Hey everyone,

I have had a few people talking to me about rules for comp for next year. I am going to go ahead and ask for input even though there probably won’t be much discussion within the committee until closer to season end. It seems like the main topic is personal index. I’m afraid we are trying so hard to make comp attractive to new people that we are going to lose some of the people that have been doing it for a long time (and may have already). I would like to see the personal index system done away with and all class indexes have a tenth taken away from them. If the majority want to continue with personal indexes I think we should qualify off of personnel. It is just one more confusing thing to have to keep up with.

I don’t normally share my opinions with everyone but for some reason felt like it today. Believe me when I tell you that I will lobby for what the majority wants even if I don’t agree with it. I would really like to hear from all of you so please respond with your opinions and ideas. If I don’t hear from you I will put you down as going along with whatever the majority wants.

We did have a couple of new people in comp this year and last and I would especially like to hear what attracted you to the class.

I know we have one more divisional but I would like to go ahead and thank everyone for their cooperation with parking this year. We did a very good job of making the available space work for us. Most all of the tracks appreciate our cooperation and have told me so.

Thanks,

Greg K
____________________________________________________________________________________

Having said that, I’m calling out all who respond to provide the reason and how it affects them. All responses are equal, but unless the car count goes up, my level of concern for the class remains the same.

So, for example, if (1) if you’re a current participant and you say if XXXX, I’d attend more races; (2) I was a prior racer and if you wouldn’t have done XXXX, I’d still be racing; (3) I had a car (or I’m considering building one) but I need to see XXXX, to participate; (4) I’m a fan and if this was changed XXXX, I’d attend more races; or (5) whatever I’ve missed or failed to consider.

Say what you want, but I’ve spent more than enough of my own time on this to recognize that car count is the only thing that will keep Comp a class.

Please be constructive in your posts …. Once again, all responses are important, but I believe the focus of relevance to HNRA includes – whether Comp is a class fans will come to see – or whether Comp is a class that will fill the size of its field – could be the best way to promote the desired changes (if any).

FIRE AWAY……CWH II

 

[comp6869]

We were only able to make it out 1 time this season, due to personal reasons. We will support what ever direction the committee decides to go and plan to attend all divisional races next year.

Comp 6869
E/A

 

[boostedf22c]

I'd like to preface this with....this is just my personal opinion!!!

First off, car count wise, every class is hurting right now. I have no clue what the answer there is, but it's a much bigger issue than just Comp.

It's tough to argue that the rule changes (personal and index gift) were a good thing in regards to increasing car count. However, in some cases it has benefited some people. Mainly in the way of qualifying off of the class and racing eliminations off of personal. So that could be argued.

As far as a spectators, we need to get back to racing to the stripe. So I would think that'd mean we'd have to give some index back so we can do so without hurting ourselves. Also, seems like a lot of races are decided on the tree. I've see a ton of red lights in Comp, ourselves included. I know this would be a very unpopular thing, but what if we went to a pro tree? I know it'd be tough, but between that and getting the indexes in check the fans will always see a start to finish race. Most all of our cars react extremely fast, so I think we'd get used to it pretty quick.

Honestly, there aren't any rules that will keep us from racing Comp. Especially D3 races. Even without the Comp fund...that was just an added bonus.

So if I were to vote for something, it would be to get rid of personal. And put the indexes back to where they were before all the rule changes and lower them .10 across the board.....o yeah, and a .500 Pro Tree...haha.

 

[T Gusso]

I agree with Greg.

Let's get rid of PI and take a tenth away from the indexes and get out there and race!

If that cant be implemented, then let's at least start qualifying off of PI. Which is something that should have been done from the beginning...

(And for whatever's its worth, I'd love a .500 Pro Tree! But I also typically leave first)

-tg

 

[Raymond Martin]

429 K/AA Old Dude
If you did away with personal indexes now how would you relate back to figuring out what the class index should be. If you went back to what it was when all this started you are essentially giving back index to the class since so many personal indexes from the 60 or 65 reference have been hit. Leave it alone now and qualify off your personal. Thanks for asking.....

 

[Will Hanna]

Lack of participation doesn't have as much to do with aversion to rules as it does aversion to work. Used to be if you wanted to go faster than 8.90, Comp or Top Alcohol were your choices. Then came Pro Mod, and now there are classes like TD/TS. A lot of those racers just want to race and not work on their car, which is not going to happen in Comp unless you have a full time guy doing the work for you.

Obviously if you race now, it's not that you don't mind the work, you probably like the work it takes to get there as much if not more than the racing on the track.

 

[Brian Landies]

429 K/AA Old Dude
If you did away with personal indexes now how would you relate back to figuring out what the class index should be. If you went back to what it was when all this started you are essentially giving back index to the class since so many personal indexes from the 60 or 65 reference have been hit. Leave it alone now and qualify off your personal. Thanks for asking.....

Simple, go back to the end of 2015 indexes, or January 1st 2016, and take a tenth off every index. If a class index (not personal) is currently lower than the January 2016 index minus a tenth, they keep their current index.

For example K/AA was 8.20 at the end of 2015. So it would go to 8.10
Without researching it I'll make up a class I/EA was 8.50 at the end of 2015, it's now 8.38. 8.38 would remain the new index because its lower than 2015 minus a tenth- 8.40.
Most classes are still a tenth softer than they were at the end of 2015 when really in 2 years most should be a tenth tougher. Rampy is as fast as anyone and races more than anyone and A/EA is .09 slower than it was 2 years ago.

 

[Greg Schenck]

Simple, go back to the end of 2015 indexes, or January 1st 2016, and take a tenth off every index. If a class index (not personal) is currently lower than the January 2016 index minus a tenth, they keep their current index.

For example K/AA was 8.20 at the end of 2015. So it would go to 8.10
Without researching it I'll make up a class I/EA was 8.50 at the end of 2015, it's now 8.38. 8.38 would remain the new index because its lower than 2015 minus a tenth- 8.40.
Most classes are still a tenth softer than they were at the end of 2015 when really in 2 years most should be a tenth tougher. Rampy is as fast as anyone and races more than anyone and A/EA is .09 slower than it was 2 years ago.

Brian really. What about all the hits that have taken place in the last two years, puff and they go away.
What some are saying is to take the tenth away that was given at the beginning of 2016, you are saying to take a tenth away from the 2015 indexes which would be a two tenth swing for most.
I didn't like the tenth and the PI idea, but I bought a car because of it. Now I'm going to go with the majority because I'm doing this for the class, but if I ran Bruno (not to pick on Bruno) next year with your proposal, I would be giving up .29 to him verses running him now.

 

[Greg Porter]

Ok I just don't get it ....personal index's have given me a new found hope of some day being competitive without the worry someone is going to go to Florida
Early in the year and destroying my winter oh hell whole years budget. So I know of several other low on funds racers also feel good about them.
It needs to be stated that many folks do not have the desposiable income they used to have but would still love to be able to race in comp, with personal index's they have some assurance that they will still be competitive when they have the funds to come to the races.

 

[boostedf22c]

Brian really. What about all the hits that have taken place in the last two years, puff and they go away.
What some are saying is to take the tenth away that was given at the beginning of 2016, you are saying to take a tenth away from the 2015 indexes which would be a two tenth swing for most.
I didn't like the tenth and the PI idea, but I bought a car because of it. Now I'm going to go with the majority because I'm doing this for the class, but if I ran Bruno (not to pick on Bruno) next year with your proposal, I would be giving up .29 to him verses running him now.

It's just his opinion though.

Of course our opinions are typically bias in our own favor.

 

[Brian Landies]

Brian really. What about all the hits that have taken place in the last two years, puff and they go away.
What some are saying is to take the tenth away that was given at the beginning of 2016, you are saying to take a tenth away from the 2015 indexes which would be a two tenth swing for most.
I didn't like the tenth and the PI idea, but I bought a car because of it. Now I'm going to go with the majority because I'm doing this for the class, but if I ran Bruno (not to pick on Bruno) next year with your proposal, I would be giving up .29 to him verses running him now.

Too many sentences starting with "I" in there for me to argue.

Even if you don't take the tenth off from 2015 the indexes have to start there if you get rid of PI because of the mess that caused. So just take them all back to 2015 and race unless it's lower now. Using Bruno, 7.62 was the index then, its 7.60 now. So it would be 7.60. My money's still on him

 

[boostedf22c]

Too many sentences starting with "I" in there for me to argue.

Even if you don't take the tenth off from 2015 the indexes have to start there if you get rid of PI because of the mess that caused. So just take them all back to 2015 and race unless it's lower now. Using Bruno, 7.62 was the index then, its 7.60 now. So it would be 7.60. My money's still on him

It's actually 7.58 now. He got it hit again last week.

But I would bet he's referring to Bruno's I/D

 

[Todd Hall]

I say take a tenth off the class index and keep personal index and start over at the first of the year. Everyone's new personal index would be there class index!

 

[SmileyRacing]

The number one thing we need to do is get the indexes where they should be. If indexs are set correctly where a good run is .55-.58 under and a great run in great air is .62-.65 under then it doesn't matter if there is class or personal index. I don't like personal index myself but if indexs are set correctly it won't really come into play. There is no way that any car should be able to go .60 or more under in let's say Tulsa in July when it is 100 degrees out. A good run there would be around .45 under.
Clark Smiley

 

[ken reich]

Lack of participation doesn't have as much to do with aversion to rules as it does aversion to work. Used to be if you wanted to go faster than 8.90, Comp or Top Alcohol were your choices. Then came Pro Mod, and now there are classes like TD/TS. A lot of those racers just want to race and not work on their car, which is not going to happen in Comp unless you have a full time guy doing the work for you.

Obviously if you race now, it's not that you don't mind the work, you probably like the work it takes to get there as much if not more than the racing on the track.

Will you posted a poll on the heads up deal ,months ago ,it was as the poll showed to be very much in favour of heads up with no cic or permanent, this was swept under the rug , seems a little suspect that a positive poll result would not command some respect from the Class driver reps, !

 

[Swartz Racing Manifolds]

I don't race in this class. I do supply parts, and I'm a fan of the class.

One of the biggest problems, in my opinion, is that most fans do not have a clue when Comp comes to the line. Whenever I watch from the stands, I wind up teaching "Comp 101" to the rest of the fans around me. I rarely meet someone who is not directly involved with the class who has any idea how it works. Why isn't NHRA helping in this regard? A quick breakdown of the class on the Jumbo-tron at national events would go a long way toward generating interest in the class. I usually start my explanation with, "It's like bracket racing with no break-out." That's usually enough to raise their eyebrows and generate the response, "Tell me more." The vehicle diversity and constant search for power is every race fan and innovator's dream. The biggest fan complaint about many of the other classes is that "they all look alike."

How can we expect the class to survive without fans? Please, NHRA, just a little bit of promotion?

Paul Swartz

 

[Bob Book]

We need to not worry about fans as even Pro classes are having issues. We need to concentrate on anything and everything that will stop the bleeding. Without question we need more cars but more importantly (IMHO) is not losing any of those already racing. I'm for anything the forces more complete runs - in both qualifying and eliminations and the first step would be to take index away from every class. I agree that .60-.65 under should be a killer run - and only happen in conditions favorable. In the summer months when you're in 1.080 - 1.100 correction #1 should be .50 or so under. A situation like that would basically guarantee full runs and get this class back to racing - instead of a chess match. I feel the same about qualifying and personally think we should go back to a Pro Ladder. This would help ensure full runs in qualifying and then finally reward those who qualify in the top half. All are my own opinions and like Greg I'd back whatever the majority feels will work. We're at a crossroad right now - and we need to be smart and work together to have any chance of this class having a future.

 

[Greg Schenck]

Too many sentences starting with "I" in there for me to argue.

Even if you don't take the tenth off from 2015 the indexes have to start there if you get rid of PI because of the mess that caused. So just take them all back to 2015 and race unless it's lower now. Using Bruno, 7.62 was the index then, its 7.60 now. So it would be 7.60. My money's still on him

My money would be on him also.
Because of his PI , he runs off of a 7.50 now so with the your idea he would be on a 7.60. My index is a 9.56 now and would be a 9.37. I lose 19 and he gains a 10.
Don't sound good on my end.

 

[Greg Schenck]

It's actually 7.58 now. He got it hit again last week.

But I would bet he's referring to Bruno's I/D

Don't bet.lol
Where was he last week?

 

[Brian Landies]

No one cares if you can beat Bruno or not. Under no circumstance should that come in to consideration for deciding rules. This personal index thing is a football bat and everyone knows it. Most of us knew it 2 years ago.