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a/nd b/nd engines.

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grant6395

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Jan 22, 2010
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this might be a question best answered in tech questions but here goes,
i am curious what these engines consist of to make the kind of power that they do.they have always impressed the heck out of me,but i know nothing about them other than what the rulebook says.no intake runner to speak of,no exhaust collector to speak of.seems to me the whole package looks like it should have a blower or run nitro to work correctly.i know this is not the case,just very curious..
grant klohn.
 
A\ND and B\ND

I'm far from an expert, but what little I know, I will share. I was at Al Parker's shop when they did a B\ND when they first came out. All I know is they got some impressive numbers out of a 358 with Dart 14 degree iron heads. Lots of compression, and 400 cfm on the intake.
 
I belive those motors would be bigger than 358 in . The weight break is 3.5 per inch . More like 400 inch I think, Parks motor is 380 something probely the lightest A/ND or B/ND out there . 358 at 3.5 per inch on the min. that would weight 1253 lbs with a driver running almost 200 mph like they do, not me . The reason nobody runs a big block or hemi or even a 427 ford is cause it can`t get light enough . max cid 410 . ok my bad 1300 lbs min .
 
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Chad Speier said:
They are very impressive engine for what the rules allow. (zommies and PG trans)

I have a set of 14º RHS's on the Parks' A/ND and a set of RR 23º RHS's on JD Zinks B/ND.

The zommie kills them!
Click to expand...
Zoomies , brings back memories of the torture years on the dyno.....we tried them and I'm sad to report that they're not that bad , they are a direct function of the exhaust valve event. In other words , you can end up with the same HP result with the cam timing shaking hands with whatever header you got , the pipe diameter and length are still the same tuning factor , with a collector or not......but they sure sound bad .

Cy Chesterman won the Alcohol Dragster Championship this particular year , when they were testing headers on the dyno , they found the headers with collectors , made the same power. They were the car to beat at that time , so just to play games , they showed up at the next race with collectors on , didn't take long before everyone had them on , satisfied he had won this game , Davenport took them off , and ran faster the next race they went to.
 
C Tanksley said:
I belive those motors would be bigger than 358 in . The weight break is 3.5 per inch . More like 400 inch I think, Parks motor is 380 something probely the lightest A/ND or B/ND out there . 358 at 3.5 per inch on the min. that would weight 1253 lbs with a driver running almost 200 mph like they do, not me . The reason nobody runs a big block or hemi or even a 427 ford is cause it can`t get light enough . max cid 410 . ok my bad 1300 lbs min .
Click to expand...

How about 405.
 
A\ND and B\ND

I could very well be wrong on the cubes, it was a few years ago, but i do know the numbers ended up respectful. This is the guy who builds all of Sammy Swindells Big Game sprints. He knows his stuff.
 
really cool stuff.what kind of rpm do they turn?and how much maintenance is required on these engines?valve train and such.
grant klohn.
 
Rob Harrison said:
Zoomies , brings back memories of the torture years on the dyno.....we tried them and I'm sad to report that they're not that bad , they are a direct function of the exhaust valve event. In other words , you can end up with the same HP result with the cam timing shaking hands with whatever header you got , the pipe diameter and length are still the same tuning factor , with a collector or not......but they sure sound bad .

Cy Chesterman won the Alcohol Dragster Championship this particular year , when they were testing headers on the dyno , they found the headers with collectors , made the same power. They were the car to beat at that time , so just to play games , they showed up at the next race with collectors on , didn't take long before everyone had them on , satisfied he had won this game , Davenport took them off , and ran faster the next race they went to.
Click to expand...


Primary length and collector length, collector exit diameter, are a tuning tool. I can't see how a zoomie is equal on something like a SBC head. But I have no proof other than theory. Now the Davenport story I will buy :) Your dealing with a Hemi head that has a huge exhaust and chamber traits (cross flow) much different than an inline head..

It all comes down to exit velocity and port speed on the exhaust, IMO..
 
Chad Speier said:
Primary length and collector length, collector exit diameter, are a tuning tool. I can't see how a zoomie is equal on something like a SBC head. But I have no proof other than theory. Now the Davenport story I will buy :) Your dealing with a Hemi head that has a huge exhaust and chamber traits (cross flow) much different than an inline head..

It all comes down to exit velocity and port speed on the exhaust, IMO..
Click to expand...
As a general reply to the SBC head or the Hemi head....exhaust , the positive pulse or push dictates the header function , the intake side is a huge difference between head designs , the exhaust is much less difference in function . You can waste a tremendous amount of time trying to make sense out of the exhaust side of any head , the ratio used to be exhaust flow 75% of the intake , now 50% is common . The exhaust duration has as much effect as anything , on the exhaust side , the header design is a result of that.
 
I hardly advertise exhaust numbers anymore because I would never sell a CNC head! I kill it on purpose. The sound and shape is more important to me than how much air it moves...

This goes for a street LS head all the way to a high end. Want more air, make it bigger. There are certain characteristics that all heads like. Exit size vs valve OD, and throat size vs RPM.
 
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Rob Harrison said:
Cy Chesterman won the Alcohol Dragster Championship this particular year , when they were testing headers on the dyno , they found the headers with collectors , made the same power. They were the car to beat at that time , so just to play games , they showed up at the next race with collectors on , didn't take long before everyone had them on , satisfied he had won this game , Davenport took them off , and ran faster the next race they went to.
Click to expand...

Cy Chesterman ran FC not dragster.

The only Alky car that I can recall running a header with collectors was Rick Santos as as far as I remember they only ran them once at Gainesville in Qualifying.

I don't think that anyone has tried collectors on a blown alky motor since.
 
I was just speaking with Norm Grimes, and asked him about the collector headers on the Santos BAD. He said they ran them in Pomona and Gainsville one year. At Pomona they shook on the run they tried them, but still set top speed of the event on that pass.
He still has them, and has tried them on Jim Whitley's dragster not too long ago.
I suspect he runs them just in an attempt to sort of bewilder the other competitors !!!!
Ed Urcis
 
Hi Grant-
These motors will launch (stall) 85-9000, and shift 9800 to over 10500 depending on whose car with low .900 to 1" lift. Reports on spring life vary. Engine sizes vary on how light you can get the car, but short stroke, big bore smaller cubes is the preferred route, figure 4.2" is about the limit for a dart block.

Marc McCormick
 
Marc McCormick said:
Hi Grant-
These motors will launch (stall) 85-9000, and shift 9800 to over 10500 depending on whose car with low .900 to 1" lift. Reports on spring life vary. Engine sizes vary on how light you can get the car, but short stroke, big bore smaller cubes is the preferred route, figure 4.2" is about the limit for a dart block.

Marc McCormick
Click to expand...

thx marc,
i did not realize they ran those engines that high.that cool stuff.luv the sound of the "high c".
grant.
 
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